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 Greket dhe Arvanitet.

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MesazhTitulli: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:47 am

Ēėshtja e arvaniti dhe Greqia

Nė diskutimin ne kemi qenė tė akuzuar pėr tonin kėrcėnues dhe anti-grekėt vetėm pėr arsye se ne kemi guxonte tė pėrmendur nė disa tema tė historisė se njė valė e nacionalizmin obscures fundamentalist ortodoks nė politikė greqisht shtetit i ka bėrė gjithēka qė tė fshihet e kujtesės historike. Sigurisht jo tė gjithė tė akuzuar pėr tė qenė pjesė e kėtij aktual, por ndikimi i tij nė jetėn shoqėrore dhe politike tė Greqisė, ka qenė i fortė dhe ėshtė e natyrshme qė shumė njerėz kanė rėnė padashur nė njė luzmė e kėtyre teoritė nacionaliste e pamje tė parė, por nė realitet tė dytė unė nuk e ka bėrė qė tani rrethoj kufirin me Greqinė nga njerėzit "armiq". Por nuk kemi lėnė politika dhe politikanėt pėr tė biseduar rreth sinqerisht histori. Ēfarė na ndan dhe na bashkon. Shumė pyetje arvaniti faktin se janė njerėz me origjinė greke tė shqiptarėve, tė cilėt besuan dhe them vetėm atė qė unė them se nėse unė i provuar me materiale historike dhe gjuhėsore. Unė mendoj se nuk do tė ketė pasur probleme tė mėdha pėr tė provuar atė me veten time, pa ndihmė, sepse tani jetojnė nė Greqi rreth 3 milion njerėz me origjinė Arvanitia grekė, mes tė cilėve mė shumė se 80.000 ende flasin nė shtėpitė e tyre tė lashtė tė gjuhės dhe se Arvanitia tė cilat gjithashtu janė mbledhur nė grupe tė cilat marrin pjesė e librave dhe botimeve tė gazetave. Unė nuk e kanė thėnė se shqiptarėt janė arvaniti por janė qytetarė tė shtetit me origjinė greke shqiptarėt. Dhe pse e gjithė kjo tmerr edhe nė kėtė deklaratė tė bėjė ata tė ndjehen tė provokuara? shqiptare kurrė nuk ka shkuar pėrpara nė zgjerimin e kufijve tė Shqipėrisė nė tokėn greke vetėm jetoj perche li qytetarėt grekė me origjinė shqiptare, dhe pse institucionet errėsoj politikėn greke kanė njė shekull qė e kanė bėrė dhe ende bėjnė kėrkesa nė dėm tė ' albania. Le tė kujtojnė tė ashtu quajtur 'organizatave' Vorio epirit ", e cila ndėrthurur me segmentet e kishės ortodokse greke ende vazhdojnė sot nė shekullin e 21-tė e tyre gjeste anti-shqiptare. Por se pse unė asnjėherė nuk ėshtė menduar pėr tė fajėsuar tė gjithė njerėzit greqisht!

E kthyer nė temėn e arvaniti ...

Kush mendon se arvaniti nuk janė me origjinė shqiptare (pėr tė thėnė tė vėrtetėn edhe nė bazė tė disa mendjet "alarmet" e atene, ka njė gjuhė Arvanitia brenda kufij tė Greqisė pėr shkak arvaniti zhdukėn gjatė luftėrave tė Revolucionit grek !) qė i keni bėrė njė gabim i madh tė gjuhės si fjala ėshtė prononcuar Arvanitas!

Nė fjalėn e bizantine greke arvanitas i referohej tė shqiptarėve nė kėtė periudhė ishin arvaniti quajtur nga grekėt, turqit dhe Arnaut, nga albanez Latine, dhe Arberesh nė gjuhėn e tyre.

Por le tė bėhet kjo dhe tė vazhdojė ...

Fillimin Ne disa nga elementet e Perandorisė Bizantine qė dikush tė jetė e konsideron kulmin e qytetėrimit grek.

Me deklaratėn e besimit tė krishterė nga ana e perandorit Theodosius pėr Greqisė dhe popullit grek, duke filluar nga 'njė periudhė tė errėt nga e cila ajo u duk se shumica nuk i dalė gjallė, Kėtė periudhė e errėt ishte kulmin e masakrės sė stadiumit "Karvalles" ku Teodosio masakruan mercilessly elleni 5000. Por ēfarė do tė kishte ndodhur mė vonė nė Greqi do tė kishte qenė edhe mė tragjike. Kristiane Bizantine ndaloi lojėra olimpike tė mbyllura dhe akademi tė famshme tė Platoni dhe shumė shkolla tė tjera filozofike tė gjithė grrecia. Tempujt e lashtė ishin shkatėrruar apo ishin tė konvertohet nė kishat dhe statuja mermeri tė krerėve u izoluan dhe u hodhėn jashtė bordit. Me grekėt nuk dunė krishterėt dhe u bė i vetėm njerėzit e Perandorisė Bizantine krijuar probleme pėr emperors Bizantine dhe tė kishės sė krishterė. Dunes Pastaj e krishterė greke pagane ende u rrit edhe mė shumė. Bizantin Gjeneralėt qė u dėrguan nė Greqi nuk u paguhet nga shteti si Perandoria Bizantine ishte bėrė nė tė gjitha krahinat e tjera tė kishte fituar, por pėr tė paguar taksat e imponuar vetė ata nė bazė tė preferencave. Kėshtu qė pas shkatėrrimit tė kulturės dhe artit tė Greqisė Bizanti me kėtė lloj tė administratės gjithashtu shkatėrruar ekonominė e Greqisė (shih pėr kėtė Paparigopulos-Kordatos).

Fjalėt si "karrem greqisht, greqisht tė pista" apo "greqisht degenerated" kanė origjinėn e tyre nė kėtė periudhė historike. Por atėherė nėse Cristiano Bizanti urrente aq shumė se Greqia e saj tė mbajtur ende nė frymėn e pėrkushtim tė lashtė mitet pse ai vendosi se ishte greqisht gjuhėn e Journal? Profesionale historianėve shpesh rrotullohem rreth njė pėrgjigje pėr kėtė pyetje dhe e quajnė anti-greqisht perandorisė bizantine Perandoria Bizantine greqisht-vetėm mbi bazėn e gjuhės greke si gjuhė zyrtare e perandorisė. Tė them tė vėrtetėn gjuhėn zyrtare tė Perandorisė romake tė Lindjes ishte natyrisht Latine, por me kalimin e kohės Bizantine autorėt u gjetėn para se problemi i gjuhės. Midis tė popujve qė e banuara lindore romake nelll'impero Latine nuk ishte populli tantochč gjuhės greke ishte shumė mė e pėrhapur dhe 'pėr tė njohur historike ekonomike e kulturore. Kėshtu qė pėr arsye praktike tė menaxhimit tė ishte vendosur nė greqisht si njė gjuhė zyrtare tė shtetit.
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:49 am

Por janė "tė pastėr" Grekėt (i cili jetonte nė Greqi) e atyre qė kontrollojnė perandori? Sigurisht, jo!

Nė vitet 1000 Bizantine Empire (tragically e vėrtetė pėr tė cilat grekėt u thirr greke) nuk kishte ndonjė pėrgjithshme greke me tė cilin unė do tė thotė, greke, banorėt e Greqisė. Por fat i keq nė Greqi nuk mbaroi kėtu, e shekullit V-VI dhe tė tėrmetit dhe fatkeqėsi tė cilat i shkatėrruam popujt e qytetit sollėn me tė edhe sulmet e barbarians. Shumė kronik i sotėm nė lidhje me kėtė periudhė e errėt thonė se pas shekullit V Greqia u shkatėrrua plotėsisht nga barbarians dhe grekėt kishin zhdukur krejtėsisht. Shumė historianė modern vėnė nė dukje kėto chronicles mbahet e hipoteza se grekėt amtare, (intendendendo grekėt qė jetojnė nė Greqi nuk ėshtė populli i cili foli greqisht por erdhi nga Azia dhe Egjipti) zhdukur tėrėsisht nga fatkeqėsitė natyrore dhe barbare qė invasions ndodhi nė Greqi nė V-VI.

Po unė nuk besoj nė kėto supozimet si edhe jetuar ilirėt kėtė kohė tė vėshtirė nė malet e Shqipėrisė si grekė tė arritur tė mbijetojnė. Si rezultat i sulmeve tė barbarians dhe e zezė erdhi ndėshkim nga Lindore, e filluan tė madh Illyria mė i vogėl. Dell''illiria e banorėve filluan tė lėvizin drejt e brendshme tė vendit dhe gjeti shpėtimin dhe mbijetesėn nė malet e jugut dell'illiria (tani Shqipėria dhe Kosova). Nė malet e Shqipėrisė ilirėt njerėz qė shpėtuan tė Revelation barbare, si do tė kishte bėrė shekuj pas pushtimit turk, me ndihmėn e ushtrive tė emperors nė kėtė periudhė e cila pėrfaqėsohet Departamenti ėshtė i shqetėsuar, ndaloi valė tė njėpasnjėshme barbare dhe rob dhe kėshtu edhe nė fund tė Perandorisė Bizantine. Ndėrkohė, sllavėt ishin nė gjendje tė zėnė njė shumicė nė Greqi shkatėrruar. Ky zgjerim tė madh tė sllavėve nė Greqi dėshmuar shumė i kronike bizantine. Theophanes pėr shembull, tregon se nė kohėn Irenes (782-783) Patricians Staurak u dėrgua pėr tė luftuar kundėr sllavėve nė selanik dhe Greqisė dhe e detyruar tė paguajė taksa. Por kėto janė fitoret e pėrkohshme dhe sllaveve u bėrė gjithnjė e mė tė fuqishme. Pra nė fjalėt e Perandorisė Bizantine Costandino VII (912-959) "tė gjitha postet, pastaj tė gjithė gadishullin grek u bė barbare." Nė raport me kėtė problem tė vetė perandor tregon njė tregim. Kur njė njeri nga tė Peloponezit filloi tė flitet pėr origjinėn e tij greke, i madh filozof Eufenau derided atė me kėto fjalė: "A vėrtet tė mirė pėr tė mburrem tuaj greke, por pėr shkak se nė tuaj gjeste sllave erė tė njohur."

Pikėrisht pėr kėtė arsye se perandori ishte menduar pėr tė ndalur slavizzazione plotė grecia emigracionit pėr tė lejuar tė qytetarėve tė ilirėt nė jug tė Greqisė pėr tė Peloponezit. Vėrtet ilirėt greke dhe banorėt e shumė gjėra tė pėrbashkėta qė kanė ata qė e dallon atė nga tė sllavėve, politike dhe tė historisė sė bashku si banorė tė perandorisė romake, nė fillim pastaj e Perandorisė Bizantine, me bazė nė zgjerimin e kulturore tė lehtė Helenike kulturės, dhe ku Lidhje kishte tė njėjtėn besimet, antike dhe moderne tė krishterė. Ky aleancė dhe bashkėpunim nė mes tė 2 njerėzve ai vuri nė dukje edhe kur Mihali Anxhelo Komna formė despotatin (tiran) e Greqisė nė Greqinė qendrore dhe nė aleancė me themeluesit Arberesh (arvanitas) e Peloponezit Luan żgur Dhemeter si dhe themeluesi i tiran e Arber test all'invasioine njė konflikt Franki. Greke historianėt si Korda shikime nuk kanė pėr tė mirė greqisht Mihali Komna as pėr Luan Arberesh żgur nė terren parė qė krijoi tiran e Greqisė dividentėt atė nga ashtuquajtur perandori tė Nikeas i cili ishte nė vijim tė politikave tė Perandorisė Bizantine pas rėnies sė Konstandinopojėn nė duart e Frank dhe tė tjera arsye se pse peshkop Mitropolitin e vranė Corinthit. 3 Por tė gjitha kėto themeluesve tė kėrkuar dhe pėr tė bėrė luftė tė bėjnė politikėn e tyre nė Greqi dhe Shqipėri (Arber) duke u pėrpjekur tė largohej nga politika e Perandorisė Bizantine dhe Konstandinopojėn. Pėr kėtė arsye Mihali Comneo Anxhelo quajtur gjendjen e tij despots dhe, nė fakt, shkruan Dr Greqi Jorgo Haxidhaqis "arsye Ellena ishte e huaj pėr herė deri Komna bizantine dhe vetėm pas tyre, ai u bė njė pak mė tė fortė" (revista Evdhomas 1884). Luan i Kishės Ortodokse Zguron urrente si ai qė ka pėr qėllim u pėrpjekur tė mbyt njė peshkop (Mitropolit) kėshtu tregon indiferencė nė mes tė kishės bizantine qė ishte nė fjalė (si dhe sot) e politikės nė vend qė tė merren me fe.

Por sjellja e tij do tė thotė njė dėshirė pėr t'u kthyer nė besime tė lashta elleni i cili ishte ende nuk do tė kishte vdekur dhe shpjegohet mbijetesa e tij me mėsimet e sė filozofit Gemisto Pletone, Giorgio (Konstandinopojėn nė 1355 ca - Mystras, Spartes, 1452), i cili do tė bėhej tė amtare filozofinė e lashtė nė Evropė dell'eopca shkatėrrimin e lindjes e Rilindjes Evropiane. Zguron pėr Luan, P. Karolidhi nė Pjesėn V tė "Historia e Popullit greqisht" mbiemrin e tij thotė se "żgur" ėshtė shqiptar. Ora pasi ky ėshtė emri i parė pėrsėritet nė Mauricio Bua żgur ose CD si Halkondili. I quajtur żgur (nė greqisht Sgura) dhe shqiptim greqisht sgurae tha karolinthi eshte emri Sciro gjetur nė Shqiptarėve (Arvaniti dhe Arberesh) e Sicily. Luan żgur Por nuk ishte i vetmi themelues i Origin Arberesh (arvanita) apo Franca ilirėt e kėsaj periudhe, njė numėr i familjeve me tė njėjtėn origjinė luajnė njė rol tė rėndėsishėm nė historinė e Greqisė, e ata ishin Vranaj, Dhoksa, etj Boxharet etj. Unė ju siguroj qė edhe sot mund tė gjeni shumė familje nė Shqipėri qė kanė kėto mbiemra, kėshtu qė ju duhet vetėm qė tė kontrolloni tė librit tė numrave telefonik nė Republikėn e Shqipėrisė, dhe besohet tė jenė tė krishterė, ortodoks apo katolik apo musliman, pėr shkak se shqiptarėt e sot si edhe ato tė njė kohe (riucorda Luan Zguron) pa marrė parasysh fenė, por Perėndia
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:53 am

Si ka qenė e madhe zgjerimi i Arberesh (arvanitas) nė Greqi, ne e kuptojmė nga letra e Honia Mihali Akominatos e Mitropolit (Peshkopi) i atene rreth 1180 vjet. Ai konsiderohet tij atene dėrguar nė njė dėnim. Athinė ishte reduktuar nė varfėri, asgjė tė ngjashme me famė e lashtė e Athinės, dhe thotė:

"Kėta njerėz nuk respektojnė tė krishterė tė kishės, kėtu Ndihem i huaj, sepse kėta njerėz (atenesi) flasin njė gjuhė tė panjohur"

Por ajo qė kjo ishte e panjohur gjuha e folur nė Athinė nė 1180?

Mund tė mos jetė i njerėzve greqisht (jo zyrtare) qė do tė mund tė kuptohet nga Mitropolit, nuk mund tė jetė si sllave ose serbe dhe 2 sepse tė gjitha kėto gjuhė dhe alfabetin e tyre kishin qenė nė gjuhėt zyrtare tė member Slavica e dinte me siguri edhe Mitropolit dhe do tė kuptojnė nėse kėta njerėz kishte folur bullgare apo serbe, dhe pėr tė njėjtėn arsye, ai nuk mund tė jetė edhe Latine. Ky gjuhėn panjohur pėr fshatarėve foli nė Athinė nuk mund tė jetė mė e gjuhės shqipe ch ose arvanita i cili ishte njė sconoosciuta Mitropolit pse nuk ishte nė gjuhėn zyrtare tė ēdo shteti dhe nuk kishte njohur zyrtare alfabetit. Arvaniti e njėmbėdhjetė do tė shekullit kanė ndjekur tė arvaniti se do tė pėrhapet nė mbarė Greqi gjatė shekujve XIII-XIV dhe XV, dhe se do tė ishte plotėsisht i lirė nga sllavėt. Shenja e parė e gjejmė ato nė Thesalisė nė 1295, vite nė tė cilat ajo kishte harruar emrin e saj tė vjetėr dhe u bėri thirrje Vllahi ose Vllahia e madhe. I Vllehiani ankuar pėr guvernator tė Thesalisė del'impero pėr sulmet e shqiptarėve dhe ai u premtoi atyre nė kėto fjalė: "A nuk tė lėnė nė rroba Thesalisė se asnjė shqiptar apparte ata qė kanė leje dhe me vulėn e artit" . Por, nė aleancė me grekėt Thesalisė e shqiptarėve nė njė kohė tė shkurtėr larg vllahi Thesalisė dhe ato qė janė krijuar disa fushata nė malet e Pindo. Mė pas i shkurtėr nė kohė tė tjera arvaniti arriti nė Thesalisė dhe u pėrhap nė zonat malore. Njė dėshmi pėr kėtė ėshtė Kadakuzhini nė 1333 ku ai thotė se "janė nė perandorinė e Thesalisė, Thesalisė nė mal, pa Arberesh mbreti, Mallakase, Buej dhe Mesarit, tė komanduar nga krerėt e grupeve janė rreth 12,000 njerėz."

Kėto Arberesh (arvaniti) sipas Kordatit janė tė lidhura me Perandorinė Androniku III dhe hynė shėrbimit tė tij si luftėtarė. Ekziston edhe njė provė e Vendikasit Marin Sanuto qė shkroi nė 1325. se atė qė ai e shkruan: "Zoti ka sjellė armė nė kėtė tonė tė qetė e Vllahise (Emri i Thesalisė nė kėtė periudhė kishte qenė i harruar). E ashtuquajtura Arberesh arritėn tė pushtojnė atė qė ėshtė jashtė kėshtjella. The Catalans dhe grekėve (e Byzantines) e kanė bėrė njė aleancė tė mundė nė betejė, por ata ishin tė pasuksesshme. Nė fund ai shkruan se ata (Arberesh) vendosin tė ikin pėr ta do, por se ishin tė tjerėt qė vijnė Arberesh, thuajini atij .. Ku do? Ne jemi duke u kthyer, sepse ne nuk mund tė mposht kėshtjella - pėrgjigja - nuk shkojnė larg, sepse ne jemi tė ardhur dhe ne do t'ju ndihmojmė tė pushtuar, e para pėrgjigje. Pra, tė gjithė sė bashku tė gjithė pushtuar Thesalisė. "

Kėshtu ka ndodhur qė tė Thesalisė riavesse me ndihmėn e Arberesh emrin e saj tė lashtė. Vetėm pas pak vitesh Arberesh (arvaniti) Thesalisė e mbrojtjes do tė ishte si nė qoftė se ajo u zhvillua e tyre. Beteja nė 1318 kundėr Don Alfonso Feadrigon themeluesi i Thives Katalano ushtrisė, tepruar nė zgjerimin 1335-1340 bizantine dhe kjo dėshirėn pėr pavarėsi nga Bizantine Lindore conquests ishte njė vazhdimėsi e tyre politike dhe shpirtėrore tė shkaktojnė ata qė ēuan nė 'aleancė me grekėt e Mihali Komninit dhe Luan Zguris politikės kundėr perandorisė e Nikeas. Shembujt e tillė zgjerimin e Arberesh nė gjithė Greqinė qė gjejmė nė chronicles e shumė kohė. Kėshtu nė 1383 e pėrhapjes ėshtė njė Arberesh Biot, me kėrkesė tė Shefit tė Thives De Ramon Vilanova. Por nė kėtė periudhė tė njė grupi tė Arberesh marrin leje pėr tė ndalem Atik dhe pėrhapjen rreth Akropolit dhe nė pjesėn jugore tė Athinės. Nė 1402 ne kemi njė licencė tė Senatit tė Venedikt Arberesh pėr 300 familje qė jetojnė nė Evia. Tė gjitha kėto gazeta gjė qė ėshtė nė tė gjitha kėto raste tė zgjidhet Arberesh nė Greqi me dėshirėn dhe me dhėnien e autoriteteve lokale dhe vihet nė dispozicion tė tyre nė luftėn kundėr aftėsi. Por, pėr shkak se autoritetet e Arberesh tė kėrkuar pėr ushtritė e tyre dhe jo turk ose wards sllavėt tė cilėt ishin gjithashtu tė njohur pėr zotėsi nė luftė?

Pergjigja duket se vetėm njė, e para e popullsisė Greqi Arberesh plotėsisht pranuar zgjidhjen e tyre nė tokat e popullit flet tė njėjtėn gjuhė si kėto, tė cilat nuk do tė kishte ndodhur nėse ata qė u erdhi turk apo sllav. The Arberesh (Arvanitas) e shekullit XV u bashkua me popujt e lashtė grekė dhe Arberesh qė kishte mbėrritur nė Greqi, nė mes tė VI-VIII dhe kjo ėshtė harmonizimi shpirtėror kur e pa ushtritė turke ishin nė Greqi. Andaj, kur tė dy vėllezėrit e Perandoria e Perandorisė Bizantine, Kostandin Paleologut tė frikėsuar nga zgjerimi i Kostantinopoli pėrgatitet pėr tė shitur tė Peloponezit shpinėn dhe nė Itali, njerėzit e Greqisė dhe grekėt e lashtė arvanita luftoi deri nė fund pėr tė ndaluar ' turk paraprakisht. Modern greke historianėt pikė pėr tė mbrojtur tezėn se kėto folėsit e gjuhės shqipe nė Greqi i cili arriti nė shekujt VIII-XV zhdukur nė terren edhe nė qoftė se kishte vdekur nė mijėra betejat kundėr sllavėve apo turqit.

Por sepse ky ėshtė argument i afirmoi nga moderne historinė greke? Pse ėshtė thelbėsore qė tė Arberesh zyrtare e VIII-shekullit XV u zhduk?

Fundi ėshtė i qartė politik, dhe politika nuk ka qenė kurrė njė aleat i sė vėrtetės. Por atėherė, nėse arvaniti e VIII-XV shekuj zhdukur, tė cilėt ishin tė arvaniti e Aticobiotise, Lorkides e Eubese, ishujve tė Saronikut e Hidres dhe Speceve e Argolidhes dhe Korinthit e Akaise dhe Mesines? Ēfarė janė dhe janė arvaniti veri tė Greqisė? Albanianisation janė greke, ėshtė pėrgjigje e historianėve greke. Por edhe nėse lostesso jo tė besueshme kėtė pėrgjigje ėshtė mė shumė i nderuar me disa akuzave qė nuk ka gjuhė tė tjera pėrveē arvanitas grek. E pse tė gjithė kėtė pėrpjekje pėr tė eleminuar nga historia e Greqisė, shqiptare Arberesh fliste e VIII-XV shekuj?

Shumė e thjeshtė, pėr shkak se arvaniti heronj tė revolucionit grek tė 1821 kishte tė duket tė jenė tė folėsit e gjuhės shqipe pėr folėsit e gjuhės greke. Por duke se kjo ishte e pamundur pėr shkak tė kohės sė shkruar, ka shumė prova e identitetit dhe tė cilėt flasin gjuhėn qė e fliste shumė nga kėto heronj arvanitas pastaj teoria pohoi se kėta njerėz nė fakt flasin njė dialekt i gjuhės shqipe (gjuha arvanitas ), por ata ishin Grekėt Albanianisation. Kjo ishte pėr shkak tė analfabetizmit, dhe po se gjuha shqipe ishte mė e lehtė se sa grek-folės Grekėt pastaj shumė analfabete (si nė qoftė se shqiptarėt nuk ishin analfabetė) pėr arsye praktike pėr tė mėsuar se si tė flas shqip!

Por duket se edhe nė kėtė version tė historisė nuk ėshtė si moderne historike greke dhe mė pas mendohet tė fshihet tėrėsisht tekstet Arvanitas kombit. Nėse fjala Arvanitas kishin zhdukur nga libra historike pastaj nuk do tė jetė lindur edhe nevojėn e diskutimeve tė ndjeshme e njė populli arvanitas nė Greqi ose arvanitas se ishte njė gjuhė e ndryshme nga moderne greke. Them moderne sepse greqisht treguar se si dictionaries arvanitas filluar me njė gjuhė tė shkruar nga njė nga heronjtė e revolucionit grek, Marko Bocari, qė (tė gjuhės arvanitas) ėshtė shumė e ngjashme me Homeric greke. Por sepse ju dha aq shumė pėr tė bėrė moderne historianėve greke pėr ndryshimin e identitetit dhe gjuhės arvanitas dhe mė pas tė heq emrat e tyre nga librat e historisė? Pergjigja ėshtė e thjeshtė!
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:54 am

Pse 90 nga 100 heronjtė e revolucionit grek ishte arvaniti!

Nė 23 gusht 1821 dh. Ipsilianti grek dėrgon luftėtarėt e revolucionit, arvanitas mysliman dhe tė krishterėt dhe atyre shqiptarėve njė letėr e falė pėr fitoret e tyre tė parė kundėr turqve. Midis tė tjerash, ėshtė shkruar:

"Burrat, luftėtarė besnikė, komandantėve Vasjari gusht, CEKO Bej, Myrto Cali, Tahir Abbey, Sulejman Meto, dhe tė tjera Tosk. Ju Tosk (Shqiptarėt e veriut) nuk ke prejardhje nga lindja (Azia) dhe madje edhe nga zemėrlepur slavi pa famė, janė pasardhės tė heronj nga e cila ne vazhdim, emri juaj dhe padyshim do tė famshėm dhe tė respektuar tuutti e kingdoms tė botės. Keni qenė me ne nė betejat pėr liri ... "(M.llambrinidhi." Unė allavani en eladha "faqe 86). Ipsilanti por ai ishte i zhgėnjyer, arvaniti e muslimanėve dhe tė krishterėve, por edhe ato tė jug tė Shqipėrisė tė cilėt luftuan pėr lirinė e Greqisė, arriti nga Lindore (tė krishterėve ortodoksė nga Azia e Vogėl, pėr tė cilin mjaft fenė qė kishin ardhur pėr tė thirrur greke) dhe do tė sllavėve kanė vjedhur gjithēka, madje edhe emrin.

Nė tė vėrtetė dėshirėn pėr tė bėrė tė zhduket e domosdoshme arvaniti rolin qė kishte nė tė revolucionit grek lindi jashtė kufijve tė Greqisė. Idea e krijimit tė njė shteti nė greqisht nė fillim tė shekullit tė nėntėmbėdhjetė ėshtė zgjeruar acculturated anembanė Evropės, duke tėrhequr tė lashtė grek dhe kultura e tij filozofė. Toka qė i kishte dhėnė Homero lindjes, Sokrate, Demokrata, Platoni, Aristoteli ,.... merituar tė jetė e lirė. Ndihma pėr tė revolucionit grek kishte nė Evropė. Por, pas fitores sė revolucionit grek, evropianėt e panė veten tė madh u pėrballur me njė tė papritur.

Njė pjesė e madhe e banorėve tė Greqisė nuk flasin greqisht! Kėtė do tė ketė gjithashtu tha se Mbreti George I Greqia e cila u quajt "i arvaniti pėrfaqėsojnė pjesėn mė tė madhe tė popullit tonė." Nė Pikėrisht nė kėtė periudhė, njė gjuhėtar gjerman tha me ironi "Pėrpiquni pėr tė formuar njė lashtė por Greqia albania krijuar njė tė re". Ndėrsa nė Greqi midis luftėtarėve tė revolucionit, tė ishin mė tė arvaniti nė asnjė mėnyrė pastaj kėtė raport duhet tė ndryshojė. Pėr tė arritur kėtė objektiv ėshtė tė pėrpiqen pėr tė filluar nga shkolla ku e gjuhės greke e cila u mėsohet greqisht (shqiptare ende nuk kishte asnjė zyrtar pėr drejtshkrimin e tij tė shkruarit e gjuhės dhe tė Kishės Ortodokse bėnė gjithshka tė mundshme pėr tė bėrė ky dorėshkrim nė mėnyrė qė kurrė nuk tė lind me tė mallkuar publike apo jo-shqiptare tė kishės pėr ata qė pėrpiqen tė mėsojnė tė shkruajnė gjuhėn e tyre).

Edhe krahas me pėrfshirjen e tė tjera nė Greqi popullsive ortodokse (dhe pėr kėtė arsye u thirrėn grekėt!) Nga Azia e Vogėl ose Vllahia. Menjėherė pasi fitoren e revolucionit filloi lėvizjen e shumė ortodoks nga Azia e Vogėl nė Greqi tė lirė tė ardhur deri nė pikėn qė tė vendosur nė Greqi siē e do zakoni 1'500'000 banorė mbėrriti nga Azia e Vogėl, e arvaniti ėshtė kthyer nė njė pakicė nė Greqi pėr liria pėr tė cilėn ata kishin luftuar. Sigurisht qė kėto grekėt "e re" (tė vėrtetė foli greqisht, por ata ishin vėrtet tė tillė?) Dukej e papranueshme ideja qė arvaniti i kishte dhėnė lirinė nė Greqi. Pėr ta nuk ka pasur vetėm njė alternative! Nė kujtim tė arvaniti kishte tė zhduket nga historia e Greqisė. Ata (tė arvaniti) nuk duhet tė ekzistojnė edhe nė gjuhėn e tyre dhe i mallkuar!

Po tė vėrtetėn dhe faktet flasin ndryshe!

Nė 1897 ne krijuam e partisė nė Greqi me emrin e "Lidhjes Arvanita" me shefin e Marko dh. NOTI Boēari dhe morėn pjesė tė gjithė pasardhėsit e heronj tė revolucionit grek tė 1821. Aliazh Kjo gjithashtu dėrgon njė letėr nė tė shqiptarėve pas kufijtė ishin ende nėn sundimin turk. Ju pamė wrote:

"Vėllezėr, si ne mund tė ndajnė vendin dhe feja nuk duhet tė harroni kurrė se ku kemi probleme tė udhėhequr nga turqit dhe me fenė. Shumė gjėra tė popullit dhe sė bashku shqiptare greqisht. Grek, pėrpara se tė bėhet i tillė ishte shqiptare, dhe Pelasgian. Civilizuar greke shqiptare do tė thotė. "

Letra ėshtė nėnshkruar nga MNBoēari, Xhavela dhe Shehu. Me kėtė letėr greke heronjtė e revolucionit qė ishin ende gjallė dhe trashėgimtarėve tė tyre shqiptarė e quajnė muslimanė "vėllezėrve tė njė gjuhė" dhe kėshtu pranojnė origjinėn e tyre. Ky gjithashtu flet pėr njė tjetėr fragment tė historisė sė arvaniti ...

Nė funeralin e Marko Bocari, pas ēlirimit tė Greqisė, Mitropolit i Artes Porifirio quajtur Marko Bocarin, themelues arvanitas tė Greqisė. Mbreti Othon ri duket me habi nė Mitropolit (Peshkopi). Duke parė me habi e mbretit Mitropolit thotė, "Po, Mbret i Shqipėrisė i dha tė lindjes sė themeluesit tė vendi juaj!" (Leondios lendiu rastin e Shqipėrisė "1897 faqe 45-47.) Por si Marko Bocari ishin mė tė tė grek heronj tė revolucionit si Xhavella, Miaulis, Konduriotis, Kollokotroni, Ali Farmaqi, Odise Andruco, Bubulina e madhe e heroinės. Ēfarė atėherė gėnjeshtra tė arvaniti nga Greqia? Krenari marug (greqisht dijetar) nė librin e tij "kontributin e arvaniti e efsines" ai u pėrgjigj "Liria"

Arvaniti qenė gjithashtu e parė tre anėtarė tė komisionit tė cilat i dhanė kurorė mbretėrore tė mbretit tė Greqisė, dhe kėto janė Othon, Andrea Mialuli, Marko Bocari dhe Dhimiter Plaputa. Tė mos i pėrmendim shtimin e vazhdueshėm tė rol vendimtar ata kanė pasur pėr arvaniti lindjes e shtetit greqisht, kėshtu qė ju mund tė shkruani mijra faqe dhe edhe kjo ėshtė e mjaftueshme.
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:57 am

Ne pyesim veten nėse ekziston njė gjuhė arvanita (pėrveē greke)?

Duke e krahasuar kjo me kėrkesėn e dėshtuar ide shumė tė historisė moderne greke, nė tė cilėn ishin Grekėt arvaniti Albanianisation apo mė keq, pasi ata kishin tė gjuhės greke. Nė 1809 njė djali 19 vjet e deri nė frėngjisht drejtor Janine Pouqueville, njė fjalor me shkrim prej tij, ndoshta pėr tė dėshira pėr tė ndihmuar kėshilltar qė donin tė mėsojnė gjuhėn arvanita. Ky djalosh e 19 vjet ishte un'eroe qė tė jetė nė tė revolucionit grek, Marko Bocari. Nė Maj tė 1819, kėshilltar i jep French dictionary Bocari me titullin "nga fjalori greqisht dell'arvanito thjeshtė" franceze kombėtare bibliotekė. Marko nuk ishte shkollė, pėr shkak se ai kishte studiuar nė Universitetin e korfuz e cila ėshtė gjithashtu e njohur si "Akademia dhe jonit". Dhe sigurisht njohin e lashtė greke dhe moderne, por kjo nuk ishte e tij amtare, dhe se ėshtė shumė e qartė pėr tė shikuar fjalor me shkrim prej tij.

Derisa fjalė ishin tė shkruara nė gjuhėn shqipe dhe pa gabime nė greqisht ju shoh njė shumė gabime, dhe ky i fundit me siguri nuk do tė jetė i suksesshėm nėse greke ishte gjuha e nėnės sė tij. Por nė qoftė se arvaniti foli greqisht, atėherė pse lind nevoja pėr tė shkruar njė fjalor greqisht-arvanito?

Nėse ju e shihni fjalorin e Marko Bocari e cila mė pas do tė derdhja e gjakut dhe dha jetėn e tyre pėr t'i dhėnė lirinė nė Greqi, kemi realizuar menjėherė se njė pjesė qė nė gjuhėn greke dhe tė arvanita janė dy gjuhė tė ndryshme, dhe tė tjerė tė partisė arvanita e gjuhės dhe tė gjuhės shqipe janė njė.

Pse Marko Bocari shkroi ky fjalor?

I ditėve tė anti-turke sindikatat u afrohen! Por pse njė aleancė e tillė ka qenė i suksesshėm, tė gjithė banorėt e Greqisė dhe grekėt arvanita desh tė vetme edhe nėse njerėzit flasin dy gjuhė tė ndryshme. Sigurisht tė ndryshme, por kini kujdes, jo tė huaj nga njėri-tjetri! Greqi nė para-revolucionit dhe nė fillim tė viteve tė shkallės sė parė greke shtetėrore, e arvaniti natyrisht foli nė greqisht dhe me tė njėjtėn naturalness gjithashtu foli arvanita gjuhės greke. Pjesa e revolucionit grek kishte ėndėrrova tė ndėrtimit tė njė lirė tė vendosur tė ndryshme nga shteti i turkish burg, ku si grekėt dhe shqiptarėt kishin pėsuar sė bashku. Por sė bashku tė dy popujve dhe tė dy gjuhėt do tė kishte luftuar pėr lirinė e Greqisė dhe kishte pėr tė ndėrtuar bazat pėr shtetin e ri. Por kjo ka mbetur vetėm njė ėndėrr! Tė krishterėt e Azisė bankierėve (armenė, hebrenj parlors nė greqisht, e cila ėshtė arsyeja pse ata e quajtėn veten grekėt pas fitores sė revolucionit e) e sulltan vėnė duart e tyre nė Greqi tė lirė (pa njė luftė apo tė bėjnė kontribute tė lirisė sė tė) se kishte fituar l ' pavarėsisė me anė tė revolucionare ėndrrat e tyre duke e bėrė tė pronės private dhe e ktheu nė njė shtet greqisht kopje tė deklaratės vjen keqe autokratik dhe fondamentaliste turkish. Marko idealist si revolutionaries gjitha ai ishte njė rob i lirisė, dhe sigurisht jo vetėm disa imagjinuar se dhjetė vjet pas vdekjes sė tij do tė arvaniti kanė vjedhur lirinė e gjuhės dhe tė jetės. Prova tė bollshme ekzistencėn e gjuhės arvanita tyre janė edhe nė shumė dokumente dhe letra e grekėve heroj e revolucionit, por njė shumė vendimtar nė gjuhėn arvanita pas Bocari M. dictionary se test krejtėsisht arvanita se ishte e ndryshme nga gjuha greke dhe me njė shqiptare ėshtė libėr me titull "NOCTES PELASGICAE", botuar nė Athinė nel'anno 1855 nga njė farė "HAINRICH Karl Theodor REINHOLD. Po cili ishte ky reinhold?

Karl Reinhold ishte njė mjek nga Getingeni, Gjermani dhe e veriut tė Greqisė me erdhi e para mbretit tė pavarur tė Greqisė OTTONE Bavaria pėr tė ndihmuar nė krijimin e shtetit tė ri. Karl Reinhold e re nė greqisht shteti kishte detyrėn e shefit mjek i flotės, kishin mundėsinė qė tė takohen arvaniti shumė se njė herė pėrbėhet nga shumica e flotės greke. Tė prekur nga kjo gjuhė qė nuk e kishte dėgjuar Reinhold filloi tė duan tė mėsojnė gjuhėn dhe arvanita shkroi nė atė gjuhė tė ndryshme tė tė gjitha ngjarjet, tregimet apo shaka se detarė dhe miqtė e tij i tha atij. Sipas Reinhold arvanita gjuhėn ishte gjuha e Pelasgians mitologjik, gjuha e cila u lind nga e njejta lashtė greke. Megjithėse pothuajse tė shkruara 200 vjet mė parė unė ju siguroj qė ēdo shqiptar tani ju mund ta kuptoni lehtėsisht tekstet nė shkrimet e Reinhold arvanita gjuhė.

Nė qoftė se ato arvaniti Sepse shqiptarėt luftuan pėr Greqinė?

Pėrgjigjja pėr kėtė pyetje ėshtė shumė e thjeshtė! Pse pėr arvaniti Greqi si dhe pėr grekėt qė jetojnė nė Greqi ishte vendi! (Unė besoj se historia e popullit nė Greqi arvanita tė cilėn unė u pėrpoq tė pėrmblidhni kėtė dėshmi mė poshtė).

Pse arvaniti lanė pasardhėsit e tyre tė humbasin arvanita?

Pas valės sė Azisė grek ortodoks (tė cilėt janė pasardhės tė egjiptiane, izraelite, Siri etj etj), tė cilėt kishin arvaniti luftuan pėr lirinė e Greqisė papritmas e gjeti veten nė tė pakicės dhe shumicės nė Azinė e cila nuk kishte hedhur asnjė rėnie tė gjakut pėr rivoluzionne greqisht dhe nuk mund tė pranojė se kishte lirinė pėr tė arvaniti folėsit e gjuhės shqipe, vendosi nė Greqi rregullat sipas tė cilit Greqia nuk ekzistojnė nė ndonjė pėrkasin njerėzve tė tjerė nė greqisht (tė krishterė ortodoks), dhe nuk kishte asnjė Azia e gjuhės greke, pėrveē qė ishte nė tė vėrtetė shumė tė ndryshme nga greqisht fliste tė njėjtėn grekėt qė jetonin nė Greqi para revolucionit. Mėnyra e vetme pėr tė mbijetuar kėtė situatė pėr arvaniti (greke heronjtė e revolucionit dhe pasuesve tė tyre) ende fshehin origjinėn e tyre. Por sigurisht se re herė kanė ardhur, dhe pėrkatėsia etnike e malet e Shqipėrisė dhe Greqisė, i cili i ka fituar shumė herė nė Alesandro tha aziatike si mė tė mėdha si dhe ai i shkroi Ipsilanti komandantėt arvaniti e shqiptarėve dhe e revolucionit grek, nuk ėshtė i vdekur. Ėshtė gjallė dhe tė fortė! Tė arvaniti, edhe pse gjuhėn e tyre kundėr dhunės dhe shkon nė historinė e tyre, filluan tė bashkohen, pėr tė shkruar libra dhe tė tregojnė nė frontin e tyre tė gjithė krenari Greqi gjuhėn ligjore dhe pasardhėsit e tyre. Jo tė pėrmendet kontributi qė i ka dhėnė Shqipėrisė nė botė si subjekt i debatit ėshtė shumė pėr tė zgjeruar dhe tė pėrqėndrohen nė kontributin qė populli shqiptar i ka dhėnė nė Greqi. E them sepse dhėnė popullit shqiptar, dhe ēdo kohė qė ai nuk kėrkohet pėr dhuratėn e tij, pėr tė derdh gjak pėr lirinė e Greqisė, as edhe njė rezervė morale!

Unė nuk dua tė pėrmend pėrsėri kontributin e arvaniti e parlors nė ABANES lindjes sė re dhe tė pavarur pas Greqia kėtė temė unė mendoj se kam dhėnė shumė fakte pėr tė cilėn ne duhet tė reflektojė mė shumė leafing nėpėr faqet e librave dhe jo duke u mbėshtetur nė burime tė Internetit. E revolucionit grek nuk do t'i kishte fituar nėse ai nuk ka pasur dorėn e Ali Pashė Tepelena. Shteti krijuar kėtė autonome Shqipėrinė jugore Pashės u bė vend ku ata tė dy gjetėn mbrojtje dhe ishin tė trajnuar nga ushtarake shumė nga heronjtė e revolucionit grek mė vonė, ata e besimit musliman si edhe ato tė besimit tė krishterė. Si njė herė Komna Mihali Anxhelo, Ali Pash Tepelena ėndėrrova tė krijimit tė aleancės anti-turke (anti-istanbull si Komna kėrkuar pėr tė krijuar njė aleancė anti-costantinopoli) nė tė cilat ka qenė e shqiptarėve tė Shqipėrisė dhe arvaniti e Greqisė dhe grekėt pėrpiqen tė gjejnė mbėshtetje nė shėrbimin diplomatik nė anglisht dhe frėngjisht mė vonė.

Pastaj, nė perėndim tė shtetit tė diplomacisė nė konflikt nga aziatike qė kėrkojnė shpėtim, siē e do zakoni nė sllave dhe ruse perandori si dhe gjeldeti ishte njė burg i popujve. Kėtu kam pėrmendur mė lart se letra e dėrguar thanks se Ipsiliant tė pjesėmarrėsit e revolucionit, dhe arvaniti shqiptare muslimanėt dhe tė krishterėt pėr tė bėrė atė mė tė mirė dėshirat e tyre pėr tė parė fitoret kundėr turqve. Ai ishte i njėjtė Ipsiliant (rusisht oficer ushtarak me origjinė greke (ortodokse) nga ana e Phanar Istanbull) qė ndihmoi nė organizimin e revolucionit nga njė greke anti-turke revoltė nė Rumani.

Por pėrpjekjet e tij u bllokua pas rumunėt urrente tė ashtu-quajturit grek Istanbull sepse kėto ishin bankierėt tė cilėt nė mbledhjen e taksave romania ne emrin e sulltan. Pas bllokimit te revolta nė Rumani Ipsilant, Ali Pash Tepelena e gjeti veten vetėm para paraprakisht e turkish. Por edhe nė qoftė se revolta e Ali Pashė Tepelena pėrfundoi nė gjak, ai ndihmoi (qė ka ndalur pėr disa vjet, e ushtrisė perandorak) e revolucionit grek tė ketė fitoret e tyre tė parė. Dikush (tepėr) foli pėr njė ndihmė (fiktiv) qė kishte tė revolucionit grek serb nga vėllezėrit! Mė vjen keq qė e kundėrshtojnė por vetėm pėr ndihmė, dhe revolucionit grek kryesore nuk ka patur njeri nga popujt e Ballkanit me pėrjashtim tė shqiptarėve!

Historinė greke ėshtė duke u pėrpjekur pėr tė fshehur nė kėtė rol e revolucionit grek shqiptare duke pėrmendur rolin e ushtrisė shqiptare turkish anti-revolucionare! Mos tė harrojmė se nė kėtė periudhė, Shqipėria ishte pjesė e turkish dhe ishte e natyrshme qė shumė shqiptarė morėn pjesė nė shkallė tė ndryshme me kėtė ushtri. Por ky fakt nuk ka ndonjė ndryshim tė luajė para se roli i shtetit shqiptar dhe arvaniti Ali Pashė Tepelena qė u ushqyer bazėn se revolucionit grek dhe revolutionaries.

E 'qesharake akuzat e shqiptarėve tė cilat sė bashku me italianėt sulmuan Greqinė nė Luftėn e Dytė Botėrore si albania nga 7 prill 1939 ai u pushtua nga Mussolini. Ashtu si qesharake ėshtė fakti se edhe nė qoftė se shteti grek ka nėnshkruar shumė traktateve tė miqėsisė me Shqipėrinė ende ka nė dorėn e ligjit tė luftės me Shqipėrinė, e cila ndėrkohė ka hequr ligjin e luftės me Shtetet e Bashkuara qė nga 1946 . Sigurisht ėshtė e qartė se mbajtja e ligjit tė luftės me Shqipėrinė nuk ka asnjė arsye historike apo politike por thjesht vazhdimin e anti-shqiptare dhe anti-aziatike segmente arvanita ortodoks qė e kanė burgosur nė Greqi i burgut politikat e tyre fondamentaliste. Por sjellja e shtetit modern greke kundėr popullit shqiptar nuk ėshtė tjetėr vetėm njė vazhdim i lėvizjes aziatike-ortodokse qė fillon me moral tė dhunės ndaj arvaniti dhe vazhdoi me dhunė dhe tė politikės kriminale ushtarake kundėr shqiptarėve dhe shqiptare nė nell'epiro 'jugore albania. Pėr rezultatet e turpshme dhe kriminale sjelljen e kėtij shteti greqisht (vėmendje nuk ishte greqisht greqisht njerėz!) Nė kurriz tė shqiptarėve ka 'njė shumė pėr tė thėnė dhe ka shumė dokumente historike (dhe jo-historike internetit burimeve). Nga kjo lėvizje aziatik dhe anti-ortodokse dhe anti-shqiptare arvanita arrin edhe simpati dhe vlerėsimin e verbuar nga shumė grekė demagoguery krishterė pėr vėllezėrit sllavė serbė dhe shqiptarė penale kundėr Sllobodan Milloshevic. Shumė grekė, sė bashku me pėrfaqėsuesit e kishės greke ishin nė duart e kriminelėve serbė tė luftės gjatė masakrave qė ata vepruan nė Bosnje si njė nga famėkeq Serbenica.

Qė kur ka, unė sugjeroj tė lexoni librin e gazetarit nga Takis greqisht Mikasa (njė tjetėr armik i Greqisė?) Me titullin "Greqia dhe Serbia, Milloshevic aleancė me tė keqe."
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:58 pm

Agrone, shume mire qe po i shperfaq keto te verteta te pakundershtueshme te nenqiellit pellazgo-shqiptar. Sidoqofte, edhe me mire behet sikur keto te dhena t'i postojme ne gjuhen anlgeze, sepse rrena greke ka vershuar dynjane.
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:10 pm

te falenderoj, do perpicem ta perkthej anglisht
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:57 am

NE INGLISHT

The question of arvaniti and Greece

In a discussion we were accused of threatening tone and anti-Greeks only for the reason that we have dared to mention a few themes in history that a wave of nationalism obscures fundamentalist orthodox in politics greek state has done everything to erase the historical memory. Certainly not accusing anyone of being part of this current but its influence in political and social life of Greece has been strong and it is natural that many people have fallen unwittingly into hordes of these theories of nationalist first glance but in reality second I have not done that now encircle the border into Greece by the people "enemies". But do we leave politics to politicians and talk sincerely about the history. What separates us and unites us. Many question the fact that arvaniti are the people with greek origins Albanians who believe and say what I say only if I prove with historical and linguistic material. I think that would not have had big problems to prove it by themselves without my help, because in Greece now live about 3 million people with origins Arvanitia Greeks, among whom more than 80,000 still speak their homes in the ancient language and that Arvanitia which are also gathered in groups which take part publications of books and newspapers. I have not said that the Albanians are arvaniti but are citizens of the state with greek origins Albanians. And why all this horror at this statement even make them feel provoked? no Albanian has ever gone ahead to expand the borders of Albania in the Greek land only inhabit perche li Greek citizens with Albanian origin, and why institutions obscure Greek politics have a century who have made and still make requests to the detriment of ' albania. Let us recall the so called 'organizations' Vorio epirit "which intertwined with segments of the Greek Orthodox church still continue today in the 21st century their gestures Anti-Albanians. But that is why I never thought to blame all the people greek!

Returning to the theme of arvaniti ...

Who thinks that arvaniti are not of Albanian origin (to say the truth even according to some minds "alarms" of atene, there is a language Arvanitia within the confines of Greece because arvaniti disappeared during the wars of the Greek Revolution !) made a big mistake language as the word is pronounced Arvanitas!

In the Byzantine Greek word arvanitas was referring to the Albanians in this period were arvaniti called by the Greeks, the Turks and Arnaut, albanez from Latin, and Arberesh in their language.

But let this be done and continue ...

We start from some elements of the Byzantine Empire that someone considers to be the apex of Greek civilization.

With the declaration of faith by the Christian Emperor Theodosius for Greece and the Greek people, beginning 'a dark period from which it seemed that most did not come out alive, This dark period was the apex of the stadium massacre of "Karvalles" where Teodosio massacred mercilessly elleni 5000. But what would have happened later to Greece would have been even more tragic. The Christian Byzantine stopped the Olympic games and closed the famous academy of Plato and many other philosophical schools throughout the grrecia. The ancient temples were destroyed or were converted into churches and marble statues of the heads were cut off and were thrown overboard. With the Greeks no dune became Christians and were the only people of the Byzantine Empire created problems for Byzantine emperors and the Christian church. Then the dunes of the Christian Greek pagan still grew even more. Byzantine Generals that were sent to Greece was not paid by the state as the Byzantine Empire was done in all other provinces of the gain but had to pay the taxes they imposed themselves on the basis of preferences. So after destroying the culture and art of Greece bizanti with this mode of administration also destroyed the economy of Greece (see for this Paparigopulos-Kordatos).

Words like "worm greek, greek dirty" or "greek degenerated" have their origin in this historical period. But then if Cristiano Bizanti hated so much that Greece maintained its spirit still in the consecration of the ancient myths why he decided that the greek was the language of the Journal? Professional historians often revolve around the answer to this question and call the anti-greek empire Byzantine Empire Byzantine greek-only on the grounds of the Greek language as an official language of the empire. To tell the truth the official language of the Roman Empire of the East was of course Latin, but over time the Byzantine authors were found before the problem of language. Among the peoples who inhabited eastern Roman nelll'impero Latin was not the people tantochč the Greek language was much more widespread and 'known for historical economic and cultural. So for practical reasons the management of the greek was decided on as an official language of the state.
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:58 am

But were "pure" Greeks (who lived in greece) those that control the empire? Of course not!

In 1000 years the Byzantine Empire (which tragically true for the Greeks was called Greek) did not have any general greek by which I mean, the Greek inhabitants of Greece. But the misfortune to greece not ended here, the V-VI century and the plague and the earthquake which destroyed the city brought with it also the attacks of the barbarians. Many chronic contemporary about this dark period say that after the V century Greece was completely destroyed by the barbarians and the Greeks had disappeared completely. Many modern historians noting these chronicles maintained the hypothesis that the native Greeks, (intendendendo Greeks living in Greece is not the people who spoke greek but came from Asia and Egypt) disappeared completely from natural disasters and the barbarian invasions that occurred in Greece in the V-VI.

But I do not believe in these assumptions as even Illyrians lived this difficult time in the mountains of Albania as the Greeks managed to survive. As a result of the attacks of the barbarians and the black plague came from Eastern, the great Illyria began smaller. Dell''illiria of the residents began to move towards the interior of the country and found salvation and survival in the mountains of southern dell'illiria (now Albania and Kosovo). In the mountains of Albania Illyrians people who survived to Revelation barbaric, as would have done centuries after the Turkish invasion, with the help of armies of the emperors in this period which represented the department is concerned, stopped the successive waves of barbarian and slave and thus also the end of the Byzantine Empire. Meanwhile, the Slavs were able to occupy a majority in Greece destroyed. This great expansion of the Slavs in Greece witnessed many of the chronic Byzantine. Theophanes for example shows that in time Irenes (782-783) Patricians Staurak was sent to fight against the Slavs in selanik and greece and forced to pay taxes. But these victories were temporary and the Slavs were becoming increasingly powerful. So in the words of the Byzantine Empire Costandino VII (912-959) "all the posts, then the entire Greek peninsula became barbaric." In relation to this problem the emperor himself tells a story. When a man from the Peloponnese began to speak of its Greek origin, the great philosopher Eufenau derided him with these words, "Do really good to brag on your Greek, but because in your gestures known Slavic smell."

Precisely for this reason that the empire was thought to stop the slavizzazione full grecia to allow immigration of citizens of the Illyrians in the south of Greece to the Peloponnese. Indeed Illyrians and Greek inhabitants of the many things they share in common that distinguishes them from the Slavs, and political history together as inhabitants of the Roman empire at the beginning then the Byzantine Empire, based in cultural slight expansion of the Hellenic culture, and where link had the same beliefs, ancient and modern Christian. This alliance and collaboration between the 2 people he noted even when Mihali Angelo Komna form despotatin (despot) of Greece in central Greece and in alliance with the founders Arberesh (arvanitas) of the Peloponnese as Luan żgur Dhemeter and founder of the despot of Arber test all'invasioine a conflict of Franki. Greek historians as Korda views have not good for the greek Mihali Komna nor for Luan Arberesh żgur on the ground that first created the despot of greece dividends it from so-called empire of Nikeas which was the following policy of the Byzantine Empire after the fall of Constantinople in the hands of Frank and the other reason why the bishop killed Mitropolitin of Corinthit. But all these 3 founders wanted to do battle and make their policy in Greece and Albania (Arber) trying to depart from the policy of the Byzantine Empire and Constantinople. For this reason Mihali Comneo Angelo called his state of the despots and, in fact, greece writes Dr. Jorgo Haxidhaqis "reason Ellena was foreign to the Byzantine times until Komna and only after them, it became a little stronger" (revista Evdhomas 1884). The Orthodox Church Luan Zguron hated as it was meant having tried to stifle a bishop (Mitropolit) thus shows the indifference between the Byzantine church that was concerned (as well as today) policy in place to deal with religion.

But his behavior would mean a desire to return to ancient beliefs elleni who was not yet dead and would have explained his survival with the lessons of the philosopher Gemisto Pletone, Giorgio (Constantinople in 1355 ca - Mystras, Sparta, 1452), which would become the speaker of ancient philosophy in Europe dell'eopca destroying the birth of the European Renaissance. Zguron for Luan, P. Karolidhi in Part V of "History of the People greek" says his surname "żgur" is Albanian. Time after this first name is repeated on Mauricio Bua żgur or Cd as Halkondili. Named żgur (in greek Sgura) and the pronunciation greek sgurae said karolinthi is the name Sciro found in Albanians (Arvaniti and Arberesh) of Sicily. But Luan żgur was not the only founder of Origin Arberesh (arvanita) or Illyrians franca of the period, a number of families with the same origin play an important role in the history of Greece, they were Vranaj, Dhoksa, Boxharet etj etj. I assure you that even today you can find many families in Albania who have these surnames, so you just need to check the book of telephone numbers in the Republic of Albania, and are believed to be Christian, Orthodox or Catholic or Muslim, because for the Albanians of today as well as those of a time (riucorda Luan Zguron) no matter the religion, but God
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:59 am

As had been the great expansion of Arberesh (arvanitas) in greece we understand from the letter of Honia Mihali Akominatos the Mitropolit (bishop) of atene around 1180 years. He considered his atene sent into a punishment. Athens had been reduced to poverty, nothing similar to the fame of ancient Athens, and says:

"These people do not respect the Christian church, here I feel a stranger because these people (atenesi) speak a language unknown"

But what was this unknown language spoken in Athens in 1180?

Could not be the greek people (not the official one) that could be understood by Mitropolit, as could not be the Slav or Serb and 2 because all of these languages had their alphabet and were the official languages of the member slavica certainly knew well Mitropolit and would understand if these people had spoken Bulgarian or Serbian, and for the same reason he could not even be Latin. This language unknown to the peasants spoke in Athens could not be more ch Albanian language or arvanita who was a sconoosciuta Mitropolit why was not the official language of any state and had no known official alphabet. Arvaniti of the eleventh century would have followed the arvaniti that would spread across Greece over the centuries XIII-XIV and XV, and it would be completely freed from the Slavs. The first signs we find them in Thessaly in 1295, years in which it had forgotten its old name and was called Vllahi or Vllahia great. Vllehiani I complained to the governor for del'impero thessaly for the attacks of the Albanians and he promised them in these words: "Do not leave clothes in thessaly that no Albanian apparte those who have a permit and with the stamp of the art" . But, in alliance with the Greeks of Thessaly Albanians in a short time away from the vllahi thessaly and those that were created a few campaigns in the mountains of Pindo. A short time later other arvaniti arrived in Thessaly and spread in the mountain areas. A proof of this is Kadakuzhini in 1333 where he says "are in empire of Thessaly, Thessaly in the mountain, without Arberesh king, Mallakase, Buej and Mesarit, commanded by the heads of the groups are about 12,000 people."

These Arberesh (arvaniti) according Kordatit are tied with the Empire III Androniku and entered his service as combatants. There is also a test of Vendikasit Marin Sanuto who wrote in 1325. that's what he writes: "God has brought this weapon in our quiet of Vllahise (The name of Thessaly in this period had been forgotten). The so-called Arberesh managed to conquer all that is outside the castles. The Catalans and the Greeks (the Byzantines) have made an alliance to beat them in battle but were unsuccessful. In the end he writes that they (Arberesh) decide to leave for them will, but others that were coming Arberesh ask him .. Where are you going? We're back because we can not conquer the castles - the answer - do not go away because we're coming and we will help you conquer, the first answer. So all together the whole conquered Thessaly. "

So it happened that the thessaly riavesse with the help of Arberesh its ancient name. Only after a few years Arberesh (arvaniti) Thessaly the defense would have been like if it were their place. Battle in 1318 against Don Alfonso Feadrigon the founder of Thebes Katalano army, rebelled in the 1335-1340 expansion Byzantine and this desire for independence from the Byzantine Eastern conquests was a continuation of their spiritual and political cause which led them in 'alliance with the Greeks of Mihali Komninit and Luan Zguris policy against the empire of Nikeas. Examples of such expansion of Arberesh throughout Greece that we find in the chronicles of time are many. Thus in 1383 the spread is a Arberesh Biot, with the request of the Head of Thebes De Ramon Vilanova. But in this period a group of Arberesh take permission to dwell Atik and spread around the Acropolis and in the southern part of Athens. In 1402 we have a license to the Senate of Venedikt Arberesh for 300 families living in Evia. The thing all these papers is that in all these cases the Arberesh settled in greece with the desire and the granting of local authorities and put at their disposal of their skill in fighting. But because the authorities wanted the Arberesh for their armies rather than wards or Turkish Slavs who were also known for skill in war?

The answer seems to only one, the first population of greece Arberesh fully accepted the settlement in their lands of the people speaking the same language as these, which would not have happened if those who came were Turkish or Slavic. The Arberesh (Arvanitas) of XV century joined with the people of the ancient Greeks and the Arberesh who had arrived in Greece between the VI-VIII and this harmonization is spiritual when he saw the Turkish armies were in greece. So when the two brothers of the Empire of the Byzantine Empire, Kostandin Paleologut frightened by the expansion of Kostantinopoli preparing to sell the Peloponnese and away in Italy, the people of Greece and arvanita ancient Greeks fought until the end to stop the ' Turkish advance. Modern Greek historians point to defend the thesis that these speakers of Albanian language in Greece who arrived in the VIII-XV centuries disappeared on the ground that even if thousands had died in battles against the Slavs or Turks.
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:01 am

But because this argument is affirmed by modern Greek history? Why is it essential that the official Arberesh of the VIII-XV century disappeared?

The end is clearly political, and politics has never been an ally of the truth. But then, if arvaniti of the VIII-XV centuries disappeared, who were the arvaniti of Aticobiotise, Lorkides of Eubese, the islands of Saronikut of Hidres and Speceve of Argolidhes and Korinthit of Akaise and Mesines? What were and are the arvaniti the north of greece? Albanianisation are Greek, is the response of the Greek historians. But even if not credible lostesso this answer is more honorable to some allegations that there is no arvanitas language other than Greek. But why all this effort to eliminate from the history of Greece, the Albanian Arberesh speaking of the VIII-XV centuries?

Very simple, because the heroes arvaniti the Greek revolution of 1821 had to appear to be speakers of the Albanian language to speakers of the Greek language. But being that this was impossible because of the time there are many written evidence of identity and who speak the language they spoke many of these heroes arvanitas then asserted the theory that these people actually speak a dialect of the Albanian language (the language arvanitas ) but they were Greeks Albanianisation. Reason for this was the illiteracy, and being that the Albanian language was easier than the Greek-speaking Greeks then many illiterate (as if the Albanians were not illiterate) for practical reasons to learn how to speak Albanian!

But it seems that even this version of history is not like the modern Greek historical thought and then completely erase the texts Arvanitas the nation. If the word Arvanitas had disappeared from the history books then it would not be born even the need of the discussions of a sensitive people arvanitas in greece or arvanitas a language that was different from modern greek. I say modern because greek show how dictionaries arvanitas language beginning with one written by one of the heroes of the Greek revolution, Marko Bocari, that (the language arvanitas) is very similar to Homeric Greek. But because you gave so much to make modern Greek historians to change the identity and language arvanitas and subsequently to erase their names from the history books? The answer is simple!

Why 90 of 100 heroes of the Greek revolution was arvaniti!

23 In August 1821 DH. Ipsilianti sends the Greek fighters of the revolution, arvanitas mysliman and Christians and those Albanians a letter of thanks for their first victories against the Turks. Among others, it was written:

"Men, loyal fighters, the commanders Vasjari Aug, CEKO Bej, Myrto Cali, Tahir Abbey, Sulejman Meto, and other Tosk. You Tosk (Albanians of the north) you did not originally from the East (Asia) and even by the cowardly slavi without fame, are the descendants of heroes from which we come, and your name will undoubtedly famous and respected tuutti the kingdoms of the world. You have been with us in the battles for freedom ... "(M.llambrinidhi." I allavani en eladha "page 86). Ipsilanti but he was mistaken, the arvaniti Muslims and Christians but also those of the south of Albania who fought for the freedom of Greece, arrived from the Eastern (Orthodox Christians from Asia Minor to whom enough religion that had come to call Greek) and the Slavs would have stolen everything, even the name.

In fact the desire to make disappear the indispensable role that arvaniti had in the Greek revolution was born outside the borders of Greece. The idea of creating a state in greek early nineteenth century it expanded across Europe acculturated, attracted by the ancient Greek culture and its philosophers. The land that had given birth Homero, Sokrate, Demokrata, Plato, Aristotle ,.... deserved to be free. Aid for the Greek revolution had in Europe. But after the victory of the Greek revolution, the Europeans found themselves facing a large unexpected.

A large part of the inhabitants of Greece do not speak greek! This would have also said the King George I of Greece which was called "The arvaniti represent the majority of our people." Precisely in this period, a German linguist said with irony "Try to form an ancient greece albania but created a new". While in Greece between the fighters of the revolution, the arvaniti were the most in any way then this ratio should be changed. To reach this goal is try to start from the school where the Greek language which was taught greek (Albanian still had no official orthography for the writing of his language and the Orthodox Church did everything possible to make so that this script does not ever be born with the curse public or non-Albanian church for those trying to learn to write their language).

And in addition with the inclusion of Greece in other populations Orthodox (and for that reason were called Greeks!) From Asia Minor or Vllahia. Immediately after the victory of the revolution started the movement of many Orthodox from Asia Minor to Greece free coming to the point that settled in greece orthodox 1'500'000 inhabitants arrived from Asia Minor, the arvaniti is returned in a minority in Greece for the freedom for which they had fought. Of course, these Greeks "new" (really spoke greek, but they were really such?) Seemed unacceptable the idea that arvaniti had given the freedom to greece. For them there was only one alternative! The memory of arvaniti had to disappear from the history of Greece. They (the arvaniti) should not exist and even their language cursed!

But the truth and the facts speak differently!

In 1897 we created the party in Greece with the name "League Arvanita" with chief Marko DH. NOTI Boēari took part and all the descendants of the heroes of the Greek revolution of 1821. This alloy also sends a letter to the Albanians after the borders were still under Turkish rule. You saw wrote:

"Brothers, as we can divide the place and religion must never forget the problems where we have led the Turks and the religion. Many things together the people and the Albanian greek. The greek, before becoming such was Albanian, and Pelasgian. Greek Albanian civilized means. "

The letter was signed by MNBoēari, and Xhavela Shehu. With this letter the Greek heroes of the revolution who were still alive and their heirs Albanian Muslims call the "brothers of a single language" so accepting of their origin. This also speaks of another fragment of the history of arvaniti ...

During the funeral of Bocari Marko, after the liberation of Greece, Mitropolit of Artes Porifirio called Marko Bocarin, founder arvanitas of greece. King Othon new looks with amazement at Mitropolit (bishop). Seeing the amazement of the king Mitropolit says, "Yes, King of Albania gave birth to the founder of your seat!" (Leondios lendiu case of Albania "1897 page 45-47.) But as Marko Bocari were most of the Greek heroes of the revolution as Xhavella, Miaulis, Konduriotis, Kollokotroni, Ali Farmaqi, Odise Andruco, heroin Bubulina great. What then lies to arvaniti from greece? Pride marug (greek scholar) in his book "the contribution of arvaniti of efsines" he replied "Freedom"

Arvaniti were also the first three members of the committee which gave the royal crown to the king of Greece, and these were Othon, Andrea Mialuli, Marko and Bocari Dhimiter Plaputa. Not to mention the continuous addition of the decisive role they have had the arvaniti for the birth of the greek state, so you could write thousands of pages and even this is enough.
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:08 am

We wonder whether there is a language arvanita (other than Greek)?

By comparing this demand with the failed ideas of many modern Greek history in which the Greeks were arvaniti Albanianisation or worse, as they had the greek language. In 1809 a boy of 19 years by the French director Janine Pouqueville, a dictionary written by him, perhaps to the desire to help the advisor who wanted to learn the language arvanita. This boy of 19 years was un'eroe to be in the Greek revolution, Marko Bocari. In May of 1819, the adviser gives the French dictionary Bocari with the title "from the greek dictionary dell'arvanito simple" the French national library. Marko was not school, because he had studied at the University of korfuz which is also known as "Akademia and jonit". And certainly familiar with the ancient greek and modern but this was not his mother tongue, and that it is very clearly looking to the dictionary written by him.

While the words were written in Albanian and without errors in the Greek you see a lot of mistakes, and this with the utmost certainty would not be successful if the greek had been his mother tongue. But if the arvaniti spoke greek, then why is born the need to write a dictionary greek-arvanito?

If you see the dictionary of Marko Bocari which would then shed blood and gave their lives to give freedom to Greece, we realized immediately that the one part that the language and the greek arvanita were two different languages, and the other party arvanita the language and the Albanian language are one.

Why Bocari Marko wrote this dictionary?

The days of anti-Turkish unions were approaching! But why such an alliance had been successful, all the inhabitants of Greece and Greek arvanita had to be single even if people speak two different languages. Certainly different, but beware, not foreign from each other! Greece in the pre-revolution and in the early years of the first greek state, the arvaniti naturally spoke in greek and with the same naturalness also spoke the Greek language arvanita. The part of the Greek revolution had dreamed of building a free decidedly different from the state of the turkish prison, where as the Greeks and Albanians had suffered together. But together the two peoples and the two languages would have fought for the freedom of Greece and had to build the foundations for the new state. But this remained only a dream! The bankers Asian Christians (Armenians, Jews parlors in greek, which is why they called themselves Greeks after the victory of the revolution) of the sultan put their hands in greece free (without a fight or make contributions to the freedom of it) that had won l ' independence by virtue of the revolutionary dreams of making it their private property and turned the state into a greek copy of the statement coming evil fundamentalist and autocratic turkish. Marko idealist like all revolutionaries he was a worshiper of liberty, and certainly not imagined that only some ten years after his death to arvaniti would have stolen the freedom of language and of life. Abundant evidence of the existence of the language arvanita them are also in many documents and letters of the Greek heroes of the revolution, but a very decisive language arvanita after Bocari M. dictionary that test completely arvanita that the language was different from Greek and one with the Albanian is the book entitled "NOCTES PELASGICAE", published in Athens nel'anno 1855 by a certain "HAINRICH THEODOR KARL REINHOLD. But who was this reinhold?

Karl Reinhold was a doctor from Getingeni, northern Germany and came to Greece with the first king of independent Greece OTTONE of Bavaria to help in creating the new state. Karl Reinhold in the new greek state had the task of the chief physician of the fleet, had the opportunity to meet many arvaniti that one time made up the majority of the Greek fleet. Affected by this language that had never heard Reinhold began to want to learn the language arvanita and wrote in that language all the different events, stories or jokes that sailors and his friends told him. According to Reinhold arvanita language was the language of the Pelasgians mythological, the language which was born from the same ancient greek. Although written almost 200 years ago I assure you that every Albanian now you can easily understand the texts in the writings of Reinhold arvanita language.

Because if they arvaniti Albanians fought for greece?

The answer to this question is very simple! Why greece for arvaniti as well as for the Greeks living in Greece was the place! (I believe that the history of the people in greece arvanita which I tried to summarize this evidence below).

Why arvaniti left their offspring lose arvanita?

After the wave of Asian Greek Orthodox (who were descendants of Egyptian, Israeli, Syrian etj etj), the arvaniti who had fought for the freedom of Greece unexpectedly found themselves in the minority and the majority in Asia which had not shed no drop blood for rivoluzionne Greek and could not accept that had the freedom to arvaniti speakers of Albanian, decided in greece the rules according to which Greece did not exist in any other people belonging to the greek (Christian Orthodox), and there was no greek language except Asia which was in reality very different from the greek speaking the same Greeks who lived in Greece before the revolution. The only way to survive this situation for arvaniti (the Greek heroes of the revolution and their successors) still hide their origin. But surely that new times have arrived, and the ethnicity of the mountains of Albania and Greece, which has won many times on the Asian alessandro said as the great and as he wrote to Ipsilanti commanders arvaniti of Albanians and the Greek revolution, is not dead. It is alive and strong! The arvaniti, although violence against their language and their history goes on, began to unite, to write books and show in front of all their pride greece legal language and their descendants. Not to mention the contribution that Albania has given the world as the subject of much debate is to broaden and focus on the contribution that the Albanian people has given to Greece. I say given because the Albanian people, and never any time he wanted for his gift, for the blood shed for the freedom of Greece, not even spare a moral!

I do not want to mention again the contribution of arvaniti ABANES of parlors in the birth of new and independent Greece after this topic I think I have given many facts about which we should reflect more leafing through pages of books and not relying on Internet resources. The Greek revolution would not have won if he had not had the hand of Ali Pasha Tepelena. The state created this autonomous southern Albania Pasha became the place where they found protection and were trained by the military many of the heroes of the Greek revolution later, those of Muslim belief as well as those of Christian belief. As once Komna Mihali Angelo, Ali Pash Tepelena dreamed of creating anti-Turkish alliance (anti-istanbull as Komna wanted to create an alliance anti-costantinopoli) in which there were the Albanians of Albania and the arvaniti of Greece and the Greeks trying to find support in the diplomatic service in English and French later.

Then in the western state of diplomacy in conflict from the orthodox Asian seeking salvation in the Slav and the Russian empire as well as the turkey was a prison of peoples. Here I mentioned above the letter of thanks that Ipsiliant sent to the participants of the revolution, arvaniti and Albanian Muslims and Christians to make him the best wishes for their first victories against the Turks. It was the same Ipsiliant (Russian military officer with Greek origins (Orthodox) from the part of Phanar Istanbull) that helped the revolution by organizing a Greek anti-Turkish revolt in Romania.

But his effort was blocked after the Romanians hated the so-called Greek Istanbull because these were the bankers who collect taxes in romania in the name of the sultan. After the blocking of the revolt in Romania Ipsilant, Ali Pash Tepelena he found himself alone before the advance of the turkish. But even if the revolt of Ali Pasha Tepelena ended in blood, it helped (having stopped for a few years, the imperial army) the Greek revolution to have their first victories. Someone (incredibly) spoke of a help (imaginary) that had the Greek revolution by Serbian brothers! I am sorry to contradict but the only help, and the main Greek revolution has not had anyone from the people of the Balkans except the Albanians!

Greek history is trying to hide this role in the revolution Albanian Greek citing the role of the army turkish Albanian anti-revolutionary! Do not forget that in this period, Albania was part of the turkish and it was natural that many Albanians took part in various degrees with this army. But this fact does not play any difference before the role of the state and arvaniti Albanian Ali Pasha Tepelena that was fed the basis that the Greek revolution and revolutionaries.

E 'ridiculous the accusation which the Albanians along with the Italians attacked Greece in the Second World War as the albania from 7 April 1939 it was occupied by Mussolini. Just as ridiculous is the fact that the state even if greek has signed many treaties of friendship with Albania still has in hand the law of war with Albania, which has meanwhile removed the law of war with the United States since 1946 . Certainly it is clear that the maintenance of the law of war with Albania has no historical or political reason but simply the continuation of the anti-Albanian and anti-Asian segments arvanita Orthodox who have the greece imprisoned in the prison of their policies fundamentalist. But the behavior of modern greek state against the Albanian people is nothing but a continuation of the Asian-Orthodox movement that begins with the moral violence against arvaniti and continued with violence and criminal military policy against the Albanians and the Albanian nell'epiro in 'southern albania. For the results shameful and criminal behavior of this state greek (attention was greek not greek people!) At the expense of the Albanians there 'a lot to say and there are many historical documents (historical and non-internet resources). From this Asian movement and anti-Orthodox and anti-arvanita Albanian arrives also the sympathy and appreciation of many Greeks blinded by demagoguery Christian brothers for Slavic Serbs and the Albanian criminal anti-Sllobodan Milloshevic. Many Greeks together with representatives of the Greek church were in the hands of the Serbian war criminals during the massacres that they did in Bosnia as one of the infamous Serbenica.

Since there are, I suggest reading the book by journalist Takis greek Mikasa (another enemy of greece?) With the title "Greece and Serbia, Milloshevic alliance with evil."
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:09 pm

Ndrrimit tė Popullsisė, midis Greqisė dhe Turqisė nė vitin hiq mė larg se para 85 vitesh mė vitin 1923 erdhėn mbi 2.000.000 banorė tė Azis sė vogėl qė sot padrejtėsisht quhen Grek apo Helen ..
Origjinali :
Cito :
Population exchange between Greece and Turkey

The 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey is the first large-scale population exchange, or agreed mutual expulsion in the 20th century. It involved some two million people, most of them forcibly made refugees and "de jure" denaturalized from homelands of centuries or millennia, in a treaty promoted and overseen by the international community as part of the Treaty of Lausanne Fact|date=October 2008. The document about the population exchange was signed at Lausanne, Switzerland in 1923, between the governments of Greece and Turkey. The exchange took place between Turkish citizens of the Greek Orthodox religion established in Turkish territory, and of Greek citizens of the Muslim religion established in Greek territory
.
http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/1881938


Arberit ( tė quajtur Arvanit nė Greqi ) qė formuan shtetin Grek ,

Arvanites: From left to right: Athanasios Miaoulis (1815 - 1867), Antonios Kriezis (1796 - 1865), Pavlos Kountouriotis (1855 - 1935) and Theodoros Pangalos (1878 - 1952).
Tė gjithė Shiptarė .
Cito :
Arvanites (Greek: Αρβανίτες, see below for more about names) are a population group in Greece whose linguistic heritage is Arvanitic, a form of Albanian. Arvanites are predominantly Greek Orthodox Christians and identify themselves ethnically and nationally as Greeks. They used to be the predominant population element in several regions in the south of Greece up to the 19th century. Today, their language is under danger of extinction due to language shift towards Greek and due to large-scale migrations into the cities.
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/History/Arvanites.html
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:24 pm

Profesori, historiani , linguisti i Universitetit sė Athinės Nikos Dimou pranoi nė njė intervistė pėr gazetėn e madhe NY Times pėr Muzeun tė ri tė Athinės deklaroi qė grekėt tė sotshėm flisnin shqip dhe skanė lidhje me greket tė lashtė.
Faji ėshtė i njė gjermani, thot z.Dimou pėr kokėfortėsinė e grekėve nė kėtė ēeshtje. Dimou fliste pėr Johann Winckelmann, historian gjerman tė arteve tė shekullit tė 18, vizioni i sė cilit pėr “njė Greqi tė lashtė tė popullsuar nga njerez tė bukur, tė gjatė, tė urtė qė reprezantonin perfeksionin”, si z.Dimou tha ishte imponuar te shteti grek qė tė krijoj indetitetin modern grek.

“Ne flisnim shqip dhe quanim vetveten Bizantine”, por athere Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix,, tė tėrė na thanė, “Jo, ju jeni Grekė, pasardhės direktė tė Platonit e Sokratit”, dhe athere filluan problemet. Por kurrė njė komb i vogėl dhe i varfėr ka njė ngarkesė tė tillė mbi supet e tija, kurrė nuk do shėrohet.
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Elgin Marble Argument in a New Light
SIGN IN TO RECOMMEND
By MICHAEL KIMMELMAN
Published: June 23, 2009

“It’s the fault of a German,” Mr. Dimou said about Greek pride in this cause. He was referring to Johann Winckelmann, the 18th-century German art historian whose vision of an ancient Greece “populated by beautiful, tall, blond, wise people, representing perfection,” as Mr. Dimou put it, was in a sense imposed on the country to shape modern Greek identity.

“We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/arts/design/24abroad.html?pagewanted=2&_r=3&sq=Albanian
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:45 am

kto jan fakte te pa mohushme por kta spo e pranojn njiher se jan shqiptar, por ma von me siguri.
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:52 am

Ka libra qe asaj kohe XHEMA , ėshtė e pamohueshme . Do i postoj por janė tė gjithat nė anglisht , besoj qė ska problem .
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:57 am

agrone dhe arber shume shume falemnderit per keto shkrime qe keni sjellur,jane te verteta te pamhueshme
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:18 am

Nė kėtė film ėshtė njė HERO" GREK" Kolokotronis ( thuan ata) . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOVIJJslUfw
Edhe pėrmendoret e kėtij heroji janė anemban Greqis sikurse tė tjerve (arvanitėve) , se gjoja qenkan grek..
Cka ishte me nacinalitet Kokotronis ?





tjetėr





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-PEUGMIyCg&feature=player_embedded
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:19 am

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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:06 am

kto jan fakte te pa kontestushme por si asht e mundur askush nga evropianet nuk i perfllin dhe ta thojn te verteten, por kto fakte vrasin,merre me mend duhet te ndrrohet historija evropiane por dhe botrore rrenjesisht.kam besim te plot se dot perfillen por pak ma von,ne baz ktyre dhe te tjera fakteve ter evropa jan FEMIJT tan; e pa imagjinushme por e vertet.
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:20 pm

Shkrime tė firmosura nga Marko Boēarit dhe Tzavella,
Greqia tė quhet Shqipėria e Re



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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:22 pm

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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:25 pm

Niko Stilos Shkrimet nė gur na zbulojnė gjurmėt mė tė hershme tė shqipes


Niko Stilos (lindi mė 1946 nė Aidonta, Prevezė) ėshtė aktivist, autodidakt, autor ēam ortodoks nga Greqia. Qė nga viti 1973 jeton dhe vepron nė Gjermani.

Nė pėrgjithėsi pėr historinė e lashtė tė popullit shqiptar kanė qenė tė huajt qė kanė shkruar dhe kanė sjellė vėrtetime pėr lashtėsinė tonė. Por, ka pasur edhe raste tė studiuesve tė huaj qė kėto vėrtetime i kanė fshehur ose i kanė keqshpjeguar. Studiuesi grek me origjinė shqiptare, Niko Stilos para disa vitesh botoi nė gjuhėn shqipe librin “HISTORIA E SHENJTĖ E ARVANITĖVE”, njė libėr qė tregon pėr lashtėsinė e gjuhės dhe shkrimit shqip. Para njė viti botoi “FJALORIN e MARKO BOĒARIT” dygjuhėsh greqisht-shqip. Nė moshėn 19-vjeēare, mė 1809, Markoja na solli fjalorin e parė greko-shqip “Ėåīéźļķ ōéņ Ńļģįéźēņ źįé Įńāįķéōéźēņ įšėēó” (Fjalori dygjuhėsh Greqisht dhe Shqipes sė thjeshtė).
Fjalori dygjuhėsh pėrbėhej nga 111 faqe, 1494 fjalė shqipe, dhe 1701 fjalė greke. Origjinali i kėtij fjalori gjendet sot nė Muzeun Kombėtar tė Parisit me kodin, Suplement Grec 251 numri 244 tė faqes, dhe u dhurua nė maj tė vitit 1819 nga konsulli francez nė Janinė, Pukėvilli. Studiuesi Niko Stilos ėshtė i lindur nė njė fshat tė prefekturės tė Prevezė nga prindėr dygjuhėsh, qė flisnin gjuhėn shqipe (arvanite) dhe greqisht. Ai ka rreth 30 vite qė merret me studimet parahistorike rreth lashtėsisė sė gjuhėve tė ndryshme europiane. Ai ėshtė i diplomuar nė ekonomi, nė universitetet italiane dhe mė vonė emigroi nė Gjermani ku ka mbi 35 vite atje. Pėr shumė vite ėshtė marrė me studimet e shkrimeve tė vjetra, ku ka nxjerrė edhe mendimet e tij se shqiptarėt janė autokton nė Greqinė e lashtė, se ata janė helenasit e vjetėr dhe jo grekėt e sotėm. Kėto mendime ai i mbėshtet nė mbishkrimet e shkruara nėpėr gurėt dhe thėniet e historianėve tė lashtė si Herodoti.
Nė kėtė intervistė ai shpalos disa prej argumenteve tė tij mbi lashtėsinė e shqipes dhe faktin se shqiptarėt janė autoktonė.
Nė pėrgjithėsi shqiptarėt nuk kanė shumė njohuri mbi faktin se gjuha e vjetėr e kohės antike ėshtė gjuha shqipe dhe qė ka shkrime tė vjetra nė gjuhėn shqipe. Gjithmonė i ėshtė mėshuar faktit se gjuha dhe shkrimi i vjetėr qe greqishtja. Ju ēfarė mund tė na thoni?
Ē’mund t’ju them! Shqiptarėt kudo, edhe nė Shqipėri nuk dinė mirė as historinė qė ishte pėrpara, le tė themi 200, 300 apo 500 vite mė parė. Nė ato vite ka shumė libra tė shkruar nė gjuhėn shqipe me shkronja toske, pra me shkronja greke. Kėshtu, propaganda antishqiptare nuk do qė kėto libra tė dalin nė dritė. Unė isha 25 vjeē dhe nuk e dija qė shqiptarėt kishin libra, kishin testament. Pra, nuk e dija qė edhe Bibla ishte pėrkthyer nė gjuhėn shqipe dy herė. Njė herė nga peshkop Grigori dhe njėherė nga Kostandin Kristoforidhi.
Pra, ju mendoni se ka libra tė shkruar nė gjuhėn shqipe mė pėrpara se vitit 1555, qė njihet “MESHARI”?
Patjetėr, mund tė ketė libra edhe mė pėrpara se “MESHARI”. Nė Bibliotekėn e Vatikanit p.sh, nuk lėnė ēdo njeri qė tė kėrkojė kėto libra. Mua p.sh., nuk mund tė mė lėnė. Nė Itali, rreth vitit 1200 njė peshkop katolik nga Bari shkruan se shqiptarėt kanė njė tjetėr gjuhė nga latinėt, por librat e shqiptarėve janė tė shkruar me shkronja latine. Kėtė e thotė njė peshkop katolik mė 1200. Pra, ku shkuan ato libra?! Kush i prishi? Ato libra janė diku, por nuk dimė ku janė.
Ka akademikė apo studiues nė botė qė thonė se shqiptarėt kanė ardhur nga Kaukazi...
Po. Ka studiues qė thonė, por e vėrteta ėshtė se shqiptarėt janė mė tė vjetėr se ky dheu kėtu. Shqiptarėt janė pellazgė. Po tė studiojmė se kush janė shqiptarėt, do tė mėsojmė se janė njerėz qė nuk erdhėn nga mali, por janė ata qė shkruan kėto gjėrat antike. Erdhi koha qė t’i mėsojė bota.
Kemi mėsuar se grekėt janė mė tė vjetrit, kanė Mitologjinė, vepra antike, Homerin etj. Do tė rrėzohen kėto mendime me dokumente shkencore?
Unė punoj qė tė thyhet kjo tabu. Nė botėn e sotme moderne nuk e kėrkon puna qė vetėm tė flasim. Duhen fakte pėr ta vėrtetuar. Unė kam punuar 10 vite qė njerėzit tė lexojnė kėto tekste tė vjetra. Pra. ka tekste tė kohės antike qė lexohen vetėm nė gjuhėn shqipe. Nė Kretė ėshtė gjetur njė tekst i vjetėr Dorjan nė gur. Kėtė tekst unė e kam punuar qė tė lexohet dhe them qė ėshtė nė dialektin dorisht, pra nė gjuhėn e arvanitasve toskė. Dialekti i toskėve, i arvanitasve, ka shumė fjalė greke. Ky tekst tregon pėr perėndinė Dionis. Unė them qė Dorjanėt janė shqiptarėt toskė, pra arvanitasit. Ndėrsa Jonėt janė shqiptarėt gegė. Jonėt ishin shumė nė lashtėsi. Pra, gjuha shqipe kishte dhe ka dy dialekte. Jonėt, qė janė gegėt e shkruanin me shkronja latine gjuhėn shqipe.
Po tė kem kohė, kėtė tekst do ta botoj nė njė libėr. Pėr kėtė tekst grekėt, duke mos e kuptuar, thonė qė ėshtė nė gjuhėn e vjetėr greke, nė dorisht. Por, unė e lexoj kėtė tekst nė gjuhėn shqipe. E kupton se ēfarė bėhet...
Mundet qė studiuesit e tjerė t’ju kundėrshtojnė?
Unė punoj qė njerėzit tė mė kuptojnė edhe t’i kuptojnė kėto tekste. Ėshtė njė gur i vjetėr i gjetur nė Peruxhia tė Italisė, qė i thonė Toskanė. Toskanė do tė thotė ana e toskėve dhe atje flisnin nė gjuhėn e toskėve. Gurin e Peruxhias unė e kam deshifruar nė gjuhėn shqipe, nė alfabetin latin dhe grek.
Kur botova studimet e para vajta nė Greqi, sepse unė jam shqiptar i Greqisė edhe dua qė kėto qė shkruaj t’i lexojnė shqiptarėt e Greqisė (arvanitasit, shėn.A.Llalla) dhe tė shohin cilėt janė shqiptarėt. Duhet qė ta largojnė turpin nga vetja ata mė tė shumtit, tė cilėt nuk thonė qė janė shqiptarė, por grekė. Sepse nė Greqi thonė se shqiptarėt nuk kishin kulturė.
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:34 pm

Arber te lumt per kto fakte Historike , kjo do ishte puna ne e mir e Kombit se te mirremi me gjera te kota si disa qe vetem zie e me zi shkrujan per Kombin.
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:35 pm

Falm. Bashkom .
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MesazhTitulli: Re: Greket dhe Arvanitet.   

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Greket dhe Arvanitet.
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